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When a TW2 moderator admits they have users pockets in mind

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DeletedUser

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The reason i ask is because a lot of the problems i have personally ran into have been met with the answer we do not know will try & find out. Now if they worked on the developing side of the game or innogames had one of there web designers or really anyone on the TW2 project i am sure they would have much more of an idea of the inner most workings of the games its flaws when there to be addressed if at all & be able to give move of an answer then i dunno or nothing can be done
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Bbecause i really only raise an issue if its a technical in game issue which more often then not there is not much if Anything to be done about them & i was actually told there is nothing we can do for this problem but hand it upstairs & i said post someone from Innogames here OR pay the mods if 1 cancels the other out then fine but i do not see why they should not be paid.

Even people who are testers for Maybach all the way down to Hyundai are paid & its like that across many industry i do remember when people used to get paid for testing now i see some games ( Not many or anything good but some ) wanting to charge to play alpha & beta sessions Ha *Laugh*
& yeah the other part was aimed at the 1st post after my original post by pryda.tw2
 

DeletedUser2369

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The mods being paid does not magically make them understand more about what is supposed to be happening, or give them more knowledge of the code, or give them more clout to get things done. Them getting paid changes nothing as far as we are concerned, only difference is they get rewarded for their hard work.
Unless you are meaning for an existing developer or planner who understands how things are set up to check the forums from time to time?
If so I must say I disagree, as these type of people time is valuable, hhaving them check the fourms, or the ticket queues will waste a lot of their time on 'fluff' that anyone could answer. I much prefer having the mods provide the first level of support, and only pass anything on to the developers or planners that cannot be handled by a mod, and to filter out ideas that are so impractical.
The fact that we dont talk directly to the devs and planners (im sure they have a better title, but im ignorant of it) allows them more time to fix and answer the problems that they need to adress, and they do that through the mods (unless I am mistaken, the mods can correct me if im wrong)

In summary, not arguing whether or not mods should get paid, but them getting paid does not make them able to do any more than they are already. The devs and planners who know more than the mods should not have to deal with random requests, but only the requests the mods deem to be above their "pay grade" (laugh away), that way they have mroe time to fix more bugs.
 

DeletedUser

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yes actually you do seem to be arguing & actually seem to be arguing just for the sake of arguing & i made it very clear that it would be nice to have someone that worked on the TW2 project with inner knowledge supply some answers Not their most highly paid devs of course not them kind of common sense there ( its why they show up to Open Q & A though ) but it seems no matter what i say you want to just argue & dismiss it so i will leave you to fight & argue with someone else because i do not know about you but being told time & time again we do not know or theres nothing to be done where there most clearly are several things in fact that could be done ( but there ticket related & not to be discussed here so i choose to leave them out ) now weather or not you have had the same experience then if so you would feel the same way & if not then your in no place to comment from any type of stand point.
and its not even just all about something being done right then or soon but at least an effort being made for them to get looked into you are taking words & twisting them saying if i mean that your answer is this.
well i did not mean that at all so everything you typed after that is just seeming like you want to argue

maybe its time they have an open Q & A again to get some of these issues solved & all im stating is things that i would like to see implemented some point not right this second or maybe not at all but to also get feed back from more then 1 person youve made it clear how you feel let someone else speak & the fact i think moderators should be paid & that my reasoning for why does not have to be outlined to you in a step by step manual for you to pick apart & twist words & btw when i said *Laugh* that had to do with something Non game related & you try & turn it to make like i made a stupid comment on mods here is not smart on your behalf & really just silly it was commenting on other games & how they want users to Pay to Alpha & beta test Nothing to do with TW2 or its devs, planners or moderators
forums to me are a place of constructive criticism not just a place to hash out a beef you may have with someone & in fact Ive never even met you in game.

forums to me are a place of constructive criticism not just a place to hash out a beef you may have with someone or go on a rant because your in a bad mood & in fact I've never even met you in game & maybe that's not what you meant by it but its how its being taken because your repeatedly pushing the issue so as i stated before i will leave you to argue with someone else views there's a way to constructively argue & ways to argue just to argue & you seem to do the latter & it gets nothing acomplished so why take part in it? so i dont.
 
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DeletedUser2369

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wow. Im sorry if you were offended by my trying to clarify your suggestion, and by my explaining why i disagreed with what I took from your suggestion.
I am arguing yes, that is how discussions when two or more people that have different opinions go. What I said was that I wasnt arguing wether or not the volunteer mods SHOULD be paid, as I thought that was not relevant to the discussion at hand.
I dont like the accusation of arguing for the sake of arguing, as I thought we were actually having an intelligent discussion on this topic, especially compared to what is usually found on forums like this. I apologise for arguing the point you appeared to make, instead of reading your mind and arguing the point you intended to make. You must realise that not everyone reads text the way the writer intended 100% of the time.

You made it clear that you wanted someone in the forums with inner knowledge to answer questions. You did not make it clear that you did not mean devs or planners, and you did not suggest who is left after you have excluded everyone who has actually had a part of the inner workings of the game. As a developer myself, the only people who know the sort of information I think your asking for in the software I develop are the programmers and the people who told the programmers what they needed to make. Outside of that, the most anyone knows is how they need to interact with the software. The sort of information the mods are already using.
Based on my own personal experience in my own field, I made an assumption as to what you were saying in order to fill in the blanks. I do apologise for not filling those blanks the way you wanted them filled, But not doing so does not mean I am ignoring you or dismissing what you say. It seems you are used to everyone knowing exactly what you mean all the time, Im sorry im not like everyone else, I get that alot.

EDIT: Just read your last edit. I am not attacking you, or hashin out a beef, You made a statement, I responded, you clarified, I responded to the clarification. This is a normal way for conversations to go, and does not in my mind constitute repeatedly pushing an issue. And I see it as a constructive arguement. I welcome any advice as to how i could put my opinions so it doesnt seem so "just arguing". maybe in a PM soas to avoid cluttering up this thread.
 
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DeletedUser

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i never said exactly who because i personally have never been involved on that side of things & that would be a bit out of line in saying xx or xx should do so. I really try to only comment on things i know about or have personally dealt with to keep them as relevant as possible & by leaving some areas not set in stone that leaves the door open for someone to say well i know a friend of mine does programming & they have a position called xxx that does that or something similar & maybe thats what they need to do here or you could have just said yeah it would be nice but there is not a position that game developers have that would bridge that gap & maybe not yet but maybe in the future as companies realize the impact that user feedback has made & will always make on games such as this & maybe a position needs to be created to fill that need sometime in the future maybe not i dunno maybe its not worth it on a profit vs user ease ability scale?\

sorry if i was harsh but most of the time when i get back a couple of reply's like that it is truly someone trying to just argue to argue & not to have an intellectual conversation * shoes lurkers away with broom* Get outta here ya Bums lol jk but yeah didnt mean it like that if thats not how you meant it but i see that is how a lot of people are in forums because there is anonymity for those that want it or simply just do not care & do not be sorry you are not like everyone else if everyone were me there would be a bunch of Jerks running a Muck in the forums lol :eek:
 

DeletedUser2369

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No worries dude, I have a unique way of arguing my opinion.
I made the assumption you were talking about devs because they are the only ones i know of that have teh info you require, and you never excluded them. There may well be a position out there that has it, But i havent heard of it, all I know is that the only way for a non-dev to understand why things do exactly what they do is by asking a dev, or reading documentation written by the devs or the documentation written for the devs.
Outside of the devs, it is all about desired input and output, not about process, so bugs or input providing strange output is only understandable by the devs, the input/output relationship is generally known by the mods, and sometimes the powers that be decree that that information is not to be released (like exactly how rams and trebs work)
 

DeletedUser2122

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Guys do you all know how many servers each innogames game has? Tw2 alone has close to 25 servers each server in a different language,if inno were to hire paid moderators for each game they would have to higher 1 for each server and that many moderators into the amount of games they have,which would exceed 100 paid employees overlooking the same things the volunteer moderators do.
That said,tw2 has 1 lead CM that all the other CMs report to and this one person is a paid employee,you obviously don't see him around much because he is the lead for all the servers and obviously doesn't have the time to look into all the forum and also obviously doesn't know all the languages. That's why there are CM and moderators that gather feedback,make reports on their forums etc and submit it to their lead CMs directly to avoid that issue. And like we have said countless times your feedback on all topics are constantly being sent to the devs.
 

DeletedUser

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it looks like the position i was referring to might already somewhat exist with this CM
& as i told you before cuddles im New to the forums am not a forum vet so no i do not know all these things but they would not have to have 100 hired employees as theres translators & people who speak many multiple languages & other ways people can multi task across several servers because there are several that use 1 language as a primary language.
It also looks like there is also no need because there is this so called CM can you give me there name please Thanks ( or is it Kengi9 the guy i asked you about the other day? because i am guessing CM = community manager & i believe that is what his title was but do not remember & can not see it now & have only ever spoken with him 1-2 times max )
 

DeletedUser2122

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Yeah CM is the community manager but the lead CM is a inno employee they report to me his name is David,I think you would find him in some of the innogames tv episodes
Anyways on the forum most of the time any inno employee would use the Innogames account.
 

DeletedUser3204

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GRhin said:
Am I seriously reading "Oh the mods arent paid, therefore they dont count as a legitimate line of communication to innogames!"
I am sorry if i misread something, but if that is what is being said, it lacks intelligence.
The mods do a great job being the line of communication between innogames and us, the players.
I dont understand the statement that inno should add a paid position to the mod team to facilitate that communication, not that the current mods shouldnt be rewarded more, its just that the current mods already do the work that this paid position is suggested to perform.

@kronic it is your post that I must have misread to get the above impression, maybe you could clarify?
@pryda.tw2 Your statement that inno doesnt have a close communication with the customer also implys that the mods arent doing a good job of that. Maybe I misunderstood?

The mods are working for innogames on the tribalwars2 project, even if they dont get paid. So communication from mods is communication from the innogames appointed "employee" to look after communication from innogames devs and planners (who dont have time to monitor the forums and tickets, unless we want the fixes to take 10x longer) to the player.
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it took my friend 9 days to get a response from a moderator that suddently decided to go away on a vacation.... except he didnt rly get a response just a. oh sorry i didnt see it. i was away... on vacation.... the player that said all these stupid things had got nobled by his pre made after 2 days, even when his entire tribe stacking his villages.

so yes, unpaid moderators is really bad. and as a senior developer it scream unprofessional company. due to where i come from, the game i build is shaped not by my own ideas, but by the customers.

if the customer ask for a stability change(no able to be pulled, stunned, knocked) I as a developer look into it, i ask the customers what their majority feelings are. i look if this is a good idea. it sounds legit. we test it out in own server before launching it with beta testers trying it out so we know if it wont lag. we launch it. we save the old patch if the new patch isnt working. and done.
 

DeletedUser2185

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pryda.tw2 said:
it took my friend 9 days to get a response from a moderator that suddently decided to go away on a vacation.... except he didnt rly get a response just a. oh sorry i didnt see it. i was away... on vacation.... the player that said all these stupid things had got nobled by his pre made after 2 days, even when his entire tribe stacking his villages.

so yes, unpaid moderators is really bad. and as a senior developer it scream unprofessional company. due to where i come from, the game i build is shaped not by my own ideas, but by the customers.

if the customer ask for a stability change(no able to be pulled, stunned, knocked) I as a developer look into it, i ask the customers what their majority feelings are. i look if this is a good idea. it sounds legit. we test it out in own server before launching it with beta testers trying it out so we know if it wont lag. we launch it. we save the old patch if the new patch isnt working. and done.
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First off, I dont understand what the players mistakes have to do with a Moderator taking 9 days to answer, which I assume was over Winter Break, please explain, as I dont understand what you said one bit. I wont have my Mods bashed, so I would be careful what I say next.

Second, developers do not have the time to come here and explain things to you, they are busy fixing bugs and making the next improvements to the game.

Third, that is not how a server implementation works, rolling back would take far longer than fixing bugs, again if you do not work in the field, please do not assume. Most of us Mods are people over 20 years old with degrees (like myself for instance, I have several degrees, one is in Computer Science) I can sit here all day and tell you about servers and you wont care, but trust me when I tell you that fixing bugs is the easiest way rather than going back a version.
 

DeletedUser3016

Guest
Yeah, me too. He does no work and is never at hand when anyone needs him. Be it a mod, or a member of the community (Slight dose of sarcasm...)
 

DeletedUser

Guest
I've been quite active paying other browser games run by other companies for the last three years, but I'd never before heard of TW, TW2, or Innogames until I stumbled into Poenari the day after it opened. I quit the last game I was playing out of frustration caused by the unbridled greed of the company that run it and its utter disregard for the players that gave it literally tenths of millions a year -no exaggeration here; it is a very popular game.
I've liked the game from the start, and I've quickly developed a bit of an addiction. But I didn't know what to really expect from the company -forum mods included- in case of a crisis. Not only that, but so many of my past experiences were so disappointing that, as I've mentioned, they drove to quit the game altogether.
So today's server downtime is been just the baptism of fire I needed to see you guys go through, and I have to say that you guys have passed the test with flying colors. You haven't tried to hide, have not made excuses, have not lied to us players, you have dealt with our frustration in a very empathetic way, and you have tried to keep us updated to the best of your abilities. What a difference!
You guys rock.
 

DeletedUser3016

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the call said:
I've been quite active paying other browser games run by other companies for the last three years, but I'd never before heard of TW, TW2, or Innogames until I stumbled into Poenari the day after it opened. I quit the last game I was playing out of frustration caused by the unbridled greed of the company that run it and its utter disregard for the players that gave it literally tenths of millions a year -no exaggeration here; it is a very popular game.
I've liked the game from the start, and I've quickly developed a bit of an addiction. But I didn't know what to really expect from the company -forum mods included- in case of a crisis. Not only that, but so many of my past experiences were so disappointing that, as I've mentioned, they drove to quit the game altogether.
So today's server downtime is been just the baptism of fire I needed to see you guys go through, and I have to say that you guys have passed the test with flying colors. You haven't tried to hide, have not made excuses, have not lied to us players, you have dealt with our frustration in a very empathetic way, and you have tried to keep us updated to the best of your abilities. What a difference!
You guys rock.
Click to expand...
Feedback such as this is very well received. Thanks for believing in us. As players of the game too, we will always try our best :)
 

DeletedUser299

Guest
I have sympathy for volunteer moderators on games such as these. The primary issue is that the mods are the front line customer service. The game developers do not come here and tell us what's going on, provide us details of future game development plans or tell us how and when then they will deal with game issues and bugs. So what ends up happening is that the messenger ends up taking the flack in the absence of any other option.

I'm quite clear that Innogames are to blame for this and they should be ashamed of themselves. There appears to me to be no direct accountability to their customer base because of the deliberate distancing of themselves from their customers through the moderator system.

There is no escalation procedure as far as I have been able to discover, so the mods are the end of the line as far as the customers are concerned. So the mods say 'well we don't get told x y and z' and the players say 'well how else do we find out etc', and the mods look like they are blocking and the players get frustrated and angry. It is a perfectly logical and, from the customer point of view, justifiable reaction.

Innogames should not have a mod system in place where there is ultimately no authority. Because the mods have an illusion of responsibility that does not exist. It is simply poor customer service.

Now, does any of this actually matter? Well no. Lets be honest here, this isn't your electricity supply or water supply, car insurance or banking. Its a game. An increasingly frustrating one at that. I am increasingly amazed that so many players can be bothered to stick around. The intelligent ones have clearly already quit.
 

DeletedUser2185

Guest
Believe it or not, we do talk to the developers and the Lead Community Manager and the higher-up. Seniors and CM's have our own separate chats and ways of getting in contact with the right people, so yes we do hear what you say and pass it along, Mods in general, Lv 1's, cannot pass it along, but that is why they have us and CM's for.

Inno does listen, but this is also a business and like all things, not everything does the way you plan it.
 

DeletedUser299

Guest
Direct question for you Cannibal. Why won't Innogames release a high level development plan, so that the players can see what is coming in the short, medium and long term? Transparency is the key to trust in an organisation.
 
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