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Top 10 Maps

DeletedUser2369

Guest
OK, i took 3 out of 11 villages, and if you were watching, they were the first three, not the scraps. But whatever.
If you believe we are dieing sobeit, i strongly disagree, if you look at where the villages were lost, very few were in a location that was strategically important, and those lost villages are your only evidence of the tribe "dieing" (yes you claim an internal as evidence, but surely even you dont believe that one player being internalled proves a tribe is dieing)
Cherrypicking one number? considering there is no numbers that disagree with me its not cherry picking. The only thing you can point to in order to disagree with me is that you killed more troops. Ask POT how they feel about their troops killing. I made a comment there that despite their bash they are losing, and you seem to have no disagreement with that. In fact the situation with with NOH is similar, if on a much smaller scale, to POTs situation in my opinion, and is where I came up with the observation that OTS was winning.
All that being said. You are right, there is not enough stats to back up my assertation that OTS is winning, so I will retract that statement. I will replace it with "This week OTS seem to have made progress in their war against NOH". does that satisfy you, based solely on the stats, not on your personal opinion? If I turn out to be wrong you can mock me then, all I ask is that you view this logically as I have attempted to.
And finally,
Everybody who need to say "I am not biased.", is biased.
This is a Causal Fallacy, basically you have claimed a causal relation between saying "im not biased" and being biased, with absolutely no evidence to back such a claim up.
Everybody who needs to say "I am biased" usually say it because someone thinks they are biased, often because they have a reason to be biased. That does not mean they are biased. And no logical person would make that assertation. There is absolutely no correlation between the state of being biased, and making the statement "I am not biased"
 

DeletedUser4507

Guest
All that being said. You are right, there is not enough stats to back up my assertation that OTS is winning, so I will retract that statement.
Congratulations to first signs of your self-critism. You gained big plus in my eyes for this.
OK, i took 3 out of 11 villages, and if you were watching, they were the first three, not the scraps.
Out of 11 Syl's villages 5 were 3k+, that is what I call major villages. Rest 6 I call scraps.
4 out of 5 major villages conquered by WOW. 0 major villages conquered by OTS. You got scraps. WHEN you captured them is irrelevant, because if player is under heavy presure he abadon these scraps and focus on defending major villages. Based on this, I call WOW gaining ground from NOH.
If you want to shift our debate to POT, give me time, until now we talked just about NOH vs. OTS.
Based on above I want to deny your corrected claim "This week OTS seem to have made progress in their war against NOH". Same as above. This the context I was claiming you ignore and thats why I said you are cherrypicking.

Btw, I am sorry for poor attemp to mock you, despite it is usually truth.
 

DeletedUser4818

Guest
Gotta say that the analysis usually are on point, a little bit disappointed by Forum-GRhin this week cause you are missing on so many aspects. It is also clear this week why obp is a poor judgement to say anything about the server really, cause it paints a very wrong picture this week, if you don't understand what I am talking about, I wont let you know but you seem like a smart guy and will most likely figure it out sooner or later.
Now when it comes to the NOH losses against OTS you are right, and it is still NOH villages regardless of how they were taken, poorly played by the tribe no doubt, regardless of how it went down. As the player seeing all the reports though, the major damage dealers were located in wow and I would say that Suyi were killing of more than the rest of the attackers combined.
As for the argument of being the first one taking villages I also know that these villagers were as fresh as they could be, they are not even stating to be claimed from syl but the previous owner, so as it goes for "in game-GRhin" and OTS being the ones "breaking" a player, it doesn't completely misses the target in its analysis but it isn't even in the right direction.
With that said I like your updates and the effort you put in to them. Too bad that they are completely biased this week.
 

DeletedUser4818

Guest
Compared to last week OTS is -50 000 points while NOH are +230 000. Now the growth might be slower than all the other 3 above (500k wow, 500k -D- and 400k -x-) but it sure is a lot more growth than OTS. So in regards of growth and obp change from one week to the other, NOH is going a lot more steady forward than OTS. Even GUM +170k and TCO + 100k are growing at a much higher pace than OTS. So at this point you are cherrypicking in what you decides to focus on in your analysis.
Now you can choose to argue 3-2 in villages or whatever, but that doesn't decide a war. The fact is this, regardless of what you are saying, the tribe OTS has started to decline, it is a matter of time before it starts to escalate quickly if not something drastic happens. Cause it is NOT a tribe lying and wait and replenishing, it is a tribe taking severe losses all over the place and soon has nothing to defend nor attack with compared to all the enemies they have created.
 
>be GRhin
>invite someone who got kicked from WOW for having 0 bash and nobling 400p barbs 3 days away in the core of an allied tribe
>have this member become new diplomat and message big tribes begging for merges, saying merge2win is best win
>be GRhin
>do forum stats posts
>include 0 detail and every statement is opinion-based with barely any numbers to sum it up except for core value growth numbers
>say -X- is useless and nobles only inactives while having highest weekly growth per member average by an enormous margin
>lose 50,000 points in a week with 34 members but think you're better than someone who gained 303,000 points with 35 members, 28 being active
>apparentlywinning.gif
>say OTS is best tribe ever winning against someone who is out of their league
>refuse to acknowledge bias and inability to create stats posts
>be GRhin
>think you're good

r/murderedbywords
this is actually so bad you're making me miss Barren's weekly posts
 

DeletedUser2369

Guest
Look, if you want something else, do it yourself.
main complaints:
1. walking rock: game-GRhin nobled villages that walking rock would not have, thats the evidence that OTS isnt winning
So you have no facts from the fight you are using as evidence, only which villages were taken, and they werent what you would have taken.
you just want to argue something, so im not responding anymore, i do this stuff for fun, you just seem to want to do some PnP, go make a thread for that and say how great you are there.
2. frippen: wow did more damage than OTS, and the villages OTS took were "as fresh as can be" (from context you mean that they were newly taken by NOH)
Yes, 2 of the 3 villages were newly taken by NOH, yes NOH killed more troops. I never claimed I, or OTS alone, killed this player. WOW and OTS are allied, and worked together here.
Do i believe that WOW could have taken out this player without OTS? Yes, Do i believe they would have? Not really tbh, but that is just opinion based.
OTS made progress, wether they had help doing so is irrelevant. You guys really need to stop getting up in arms when i dont say your tribe is the best tribe to ever be invented.
3. frippen: OTS lost points, while NOH increased in points
yes. but the areas that lost the points were not, are not, and probably never will be, in contact, or involved in fighting, with NOH.
as i said "losing the war in the south" that covers the lost points. I have not hidden this, have addressed it directly. If NOH were in the same position i would have said the exact same.
4. a bunch of false claims by cute kitten.
no idea who you think is our new diplomat, but I havent seen that. Besides, as i have said before, I am not in council, so even if that has happened, it is not attributable to me.
this post already takes me long enough, overviews are fine for me, if you want more detail, do your own.
never said -X- is useless. And it is well known that clearing inactives gets you more bash than fighting active and skilled players. has even been mentioned here in this thread.
never said i was better than NOH, merely that that part of OTSs fight was winning. which the stats back up.
never even said OTS is was best ever, but if you think NOH is out of their league you need to get your eyes checked.
i dont care whether I am good or not. Frankly, if youd prefer it, I wont post these updates. I only do it cos noone else was.

Frankly guys, this is dissapointing. Am I perfectly unbiased? no, im human. But i try to be as unbiased as possible. Every comment made by you guys this week, however, has been inventing stuff, or putting wild spin on numbers, to try and make your own tribes look as good as possible.
I am happy to discuss what I have written, but this has devolved into telling me how crap I am in general, and if that is what people believe, I will cease to do this. I do it as a volunteer. This is not PnP, this is meant to be a logic based, and experience based analysis of the tribes. I honestly believe that were I not in OTS, i would have said the same. If i werent in the world at all, I would have said the same.
 

DeletedUser3495

Guest
First world to play to ever be this boring, WOW even made a second tribe to fit in their members, i first thought they would use their skill point for numbers but this is a whole nother level of MRT lmao. wont be surprised if they make a 3rd tribe to fit everyone in lmao.
100% agree, this world has been so boring so far
 

DeletedUser2369

Guest
I do agree. the "biggest" war (wait for the trolls to jump on this statement) is the alliance of 3 of the top 4 tribes attacking #5, with the remaining top 4 tribe helping #5 in one area.
Not an amazing war, its hard to get one with such a disparity in forces, but the biggest the worlds seen (which isnt saying much).
I do see Darkness going forward to the win, taking out the top5 tribes one by one, using alliances with the rest to help guarantee the win. When they get down to a 1 tribe vs 1 tribe, we will finally get a war, or maybe they will just merge to the win.
My guess of the order of tribes being killed, at the current rate of the world:
1. OTS (yes i said they were winning against NOH, but if they lose everywhere else they will end up overpowered eventually)
2. WOW
3. -X-
4. NOH

But this is far from a done deal, there are still a couple things that could stop this path, i dont see any of it happening, but i still feel obliged to point it out.
1. WOW declares war on -D-. I believe WOW has some good players (and some bad), but the leaderships strategy has forced them to compact and go stagnant, a war with Darkness could change the tide. It will be hard, but possible.
2. the alliance between Darkness, TNOHUN and/or The War Council breaks down. Particularly with The War Council as they are in a position to hit darkness, with no easy help from NOH.
If neither of these happen within the next 2-4 weeks, barring massive internal strife, Darkness will win the world in my opinion.
The only other potential for a large-scale war, with a different victor, is for NOH and -X- to ally against Darkness once WOW and OTS are out of the way. which is when the two tribes will surround Darkness. By this time Darkness will have grown fat on the carcasses of WOW and OTS, with far more experience earned than the other two tribes, So this would be a dfficult fight for NOH and -X- to win even in a 2v1
 

DeletedUser4818

Guest
I never stated that you are doing a bad job tbh, all I said were that you managed to bring forth a small issue that doesn't matter at all. I think the "war" between OTS and NOH ended in what? 3-2 villages in the favor of OTS, now stating that they are winning a war because of it, well it is just completely showing of one side of the story, tbh I think you guys lost 2 villages to us on Monday, does that mean that now all of a sudden NOH is winning the war? We are talking about 1-2 villages difference between two tribes that together controls around 450 villages, surely 1,2 village in either direction wont effect the outcome and can be used as a measurement to which tribe is winning.
Now aren't the whole thread about creating a discussion about the server? I am sure that there are players who agree with what you are saying and takes is pretty much as facts. But you can't sit here and get enraged just because 3 players don't FULLY share your opinion, but hold on, in some aspects we actually do!
 

DeletedUser2369

Guest
I never stated that you are doing a bad job tbh, all I said were that you managed to bring forth a small issue that doesn't matter at all. I think the "war" between OTS and NOH ended in what? 3-2 villages in the favor of OTS, now stating that they are winning a war because of it, well it is just completely showing of one side of the story, tbh I think you guys lost 2 villages to us on Monday, does that mean that now all of a sudden NOH is winning the war? We are talking about 1-2 villages difference between two tribes that together controls around 450 villages, surely 1,2 village in either direction wont effect the outcome and can be used as a measurement to which tribe is winning.
Now aren't the whole thread about creating a discussion about the server? I am sure that there are players who agree with what you are saying and takes is pretty much as facts. But you can't sit here and get enraged just because 3 players don't FULLY share your opinion, but hold on, in some aspects we actually do!
So your entire issue here is the statement that I retracted before you posted? I have restated it a few times as players keep on going on about it despite the retraction.
The reality is, while i said "OTS is winning the war" i should have said "OTS/WOW is winning the war" simply because they are allied fighting that particular war. who is dealing the damage is irrelevant, both tribes are involved, and the village difference is much more stark. However, as has been pointed out, taking out one player/province is not evidence of "winning", tho i maintain it is "progress", thus i changed the statement.
I never said you said i was doing a bad job, i said this thread has become that. In fact you are the one who has actually used this thread as it was meant. I dont have a problem with people disagreeing with me, though Id prefer it done in a constructive manner, this is not meant to be P&P.
Walkingrock, has been pretty close, but Iv gotten to the point where I think hes just arguing for the sake of arguing, or just to make himself/his tribe look better, and not because he wants an objective truth put in. Theres a fine line, so i cant respond to some of his posts and not others, so if this keeps up I will stop responding to his posts.
The one specifically complaining about the job done, instead of having any meaningful input, is cute kitten. As said earlier, basically everything kitten posted was invented, and used only to say how crap i am/how crap this top10 thread is. I dont care if players think its a waste of time, but out of respect for someone investing time in doing something for the good of the community, they should just not take part of it if they think its worthless.
 

DeletedUser4271

Guest
so in the end.I was right with my prediction at the start of the world that despite being a domination world...everyone hugs and goes for the easy fights. How predictable.
 

DeletedUser

Guest
I love the maps. Nice for a person to take the time to post them. The rest falls under banter and entertainment. Even if I don't agree with everything, he is taking time to at least attempt an analysis. It is appreciated at least by me.
 

DeletedUser3495

Guest
Looks like I survived top 10 till Monday, can't wait for another update ^_^
 

DeletedUser2369

Guest
top10tribe-03-11.PNG
top10tribe-03-11-stats.PNG

1. WOW, the ressurection! WOw have reclaimed the top spot with two new members this week, and for the first time gaining a fair bit of a lead on Darkness in Offensive bash per member.
It seems they have had a lot of growth through and around POT in the southwest. most conquers came from this region, primarily from POT, with a few from former top10 tribe DPR.
This tribe still in the running, to my surprise.
As to losses, 2 lost to -X-, 1 to -D- I am fairly sure these were amicable village trades. Two more villages lost to NOH, but from the location it was from an isolated player, so not overly surprising.
2. -D-, down a slot this week, very little offensive bash increase (10k per member - only tco and SIN did worse! In their defense their offensive bash dropped nearly 500k in one day, someone jumping ship? this could account for the low overall bash increase.) and very little new territory. Their war with OTS seems to have balanced out after last weeks surprise attack.
(Authors Note: please dont flame me guys, im not saying OTS is winning, Darkness has made very little progress in the last week against OTS, other tribes may have, but Darkness has not. Deal with it)
32 Barbs taken this weeks as well, which is rather disappointing. there were several conquers in tw2analytics from OTS, however very few of them show on the map. Either OTS retrieved them (most that i checked this was the case) since the stats were updated, or the map hasnt been updated in a day or two.
Interestingly there were 3 villages lost to Froshie from -X-, wonder if that is a smash and grab now that the OTS that -x- can reach are gone, or an amicable trading of villages.
3. -X-, changing it up this week, "the war council" has been renamed to "Honesty and Integrity", thats a high title to claim in this game, Ill let you decide how fitting it is as thats not my area of expertise.
This tribe has almost doubled in size this week, and shot up in offensive bash as well. It seems they have effectively finished off OTS's southwestern cluster, and consumed H_J, at least partially through recruitment, but also through conquest. I guess I finally get to stop talking about that tribe this week!
They have taken villages from a range of other tribes as well, some in the top 10 (e.g. tco) others ive never heard of, and some from unaligned players as well. No losses this week. Tribe of the week this week I think.
4. NOH, fair increase in both points and bash this week. Im sure they want me to tell you how they are beating OTS after last weeks "OTS is winning" fiasco, they have after all taken 8 villages off of OTS this week while OTS has taken none. Because there are players looking at this statement looking for any possible inaccuracy to flame me with again, i have decided to do more research into where these villages are. Ill go into that in OTS's block. To sum it up, yes NOH are taking villages off OTS, congratulations, it seems that they have successfully taken advantage of the distraction -D- have given to snap up some villages - that does not take away from the villages taken, in Tribal Wars what matters is how many villages you can take, not how you take them.
The majority of villages have been coming from DPR, gum and CON (this last has never been in top 10, so i dont know much about them).
The losses have been mostly to gum, however in the war between gum and NOH, NOH seem to be winning.
5. tco, suprisingly still active, up one slot this week, however i think their rank climbing is due to the fall of other tribes not their own prowess. They are taking villages, they are losing villages, but i dont think this tribe is worth my time going into detail. Sorry if thats insulting.
6. gum, up one rank this week, i think they are doing well for their size, most of them being new starts on the rim, however they just arent a match for NOH, especially with OTS shrinking.
7. OTS, down 2 slots this week. they are doing well considering the numbers arrayed against them, however not good enough.
Before I go into detail here, I first would like to point out something that has contributed to their fall, that I should have noticed several weeks ago, but did not register. This tribe has three clusters, i shall refer to them south-east cluster, central cluster, west cluster. Im sure you can figure out what each refers to. Therefore we should have been looking at this tribe more like 3 allied tribes, none of which would have been high on this list, if there at all, in their own right. Sorry for not picking up on this and pointing it out sooner, If i do this on another world, I will make sure to look for this.
Now that that has been pointed out, it is clear that in the last 2 weeks the south-east cluster has been wiped out virtually in its entirety. A sustained assault from -X-, -D- and, surprisingly, catnukes from H_J eventually broke them.
The central cluster is the group that was hit by -D-'s surprise assault last week, losing the isolated villages throughout WOW territory. It is still being hit by Darkness, and the southern edge is getting frayed, it looks like NOH jumped into the fray in after Darkness managed to break in and OTS probably couldnt handle the extra players after already being foiled by Darkness, Im sure ill be corrected on this. This is where NOH got 6 of their 8 OTS conquers this week. As for darknesses conquers, Im going to refer to the map, rather than to tw2analytics, as it is clear that OTS are using the renobling tactic a fair bit so we need the most up to date info for this. On the map I am seeing only 1 new orange -D- dot in OTS's territory compared to last week.
For their size central-cluster OTS is still putting up a damn good fight, and their losses arent nearly so bad as the overall stats show.
The western cluster is made up of the restarts or new players, though I am seeing a few central cluster players grabbing backup villages on the rim - i guess it means if they get rimmed they keep their minted coins which is a bonus. This cluster suffered the remaining 2 NOH conquers this week. So its fair to say NOH is making progress here in their own right, though last week I was accused of being bias for saying this based off 3 villages, so ill let you decide that one.
(Authors Note: Sorry if people think that comparing cluster stats as opposed to the whole tribes stats is being biased, however no other tribe has such clear cut cluster boundaries. I do say that tribes are growing in one area, or that they are losing villages in another area when they are large enough to not be interdependant. This is just one more thing you will have to deal with, as I do not believe it to be biased but more accurate, if you are unable to accept that, write your own analysis.)
8. SIN, up two slots this week, however despite remaining steady in members, they have gone down in Offensive bash per member, so theres obviously some turnover. Their bash was not impressive at all in the first place.
MOstly taking barbs and unaligned, and lost 11 villages to -X-. You cant expect them to hold against a top 3 tribe, but i was hoping for a little more than this. Sadly I dont think these guys will survive much longer.
9. YSH, a new tribe on the top 10 this week, situated on the south-south-east rim, I think these guys will probably go the same way as SIN however their offensive bash is already much more impressive. Im rooting for you guys, I love an underdog, unfortunately I dont think you really have a chance.
10. POT, dropping another 2 slots this week. they talked a big game, got alot of bash, and crashed and burned. This is the poster boy for "Numbers dont tell the whole story". Surprisingly there are still a couple of actives here based off the conquers, but I think the majority of this tribe is gone. From here on out i expect to only see these guys due to no other tribes growing past them, not because of anything POT does. Fare thee well.
top10player-03-11.PNG
top10player-03-11-stats.PNG

A fair bit of movement here. Honesty & Integrity (-X-) have a strong presence this week, from 3 last week to 5.
tenmen pushing past the orical for #2.
Farewell Floki77 and suyi, welcome to rare pupper xoxo and j u c k f h i n
top10player-03-11-bashstats.PNG

I might stop doing this for a bit. It is clear that 5 of these players no longer play, or barely play, and it can be hard to tell between a good up-and-comer and yesterdays news. These numbers never tell much of the story in the first place, its basically just bragging rights. let me know if you want me to keep posting the screenshot, but unless there is some interesting developments i probably wont say anything about it.
 
no one is going to discuss this week's issue ?? i guess grhin scared everyone away :D
i think -D- and WOW didn't just switch positions ... they also switched problems ... looking at the map -D- is the one running out of targets now ... surrounded by NAP/allies with only few areas to grow ... WOW seems to have much more options atm + POT falling apart really helped them ... i think the gap between them will increase unless -D- decided to change their diplomacy with one of the major tribes left ... the real question is can they make the rest of top3-5 work with them as usual ??
few things changed since the last issue ... OTS is old news ... -X- still fighting barbs ... they will fall as soon as they face a half decent tribe ... NOH is doing good ... i think gum have some good players and can do well ... the rest of the top 10 isn't worth talking about imo ...

i do agree that doing obp ranking is useless atm ...
 
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DeletedUser4507

Guest
@SYPHAX What issues? All small inaccuracies that are there are because of using a single metric, conquers. That would be OK if this analysis has 10 lines. For anything more detailed it is not enough. News from fighting are obviously rest of OTS being shreded after all 4 top players deserted to -X-. Now we are in time of every tribe is waiting for others to do something. It will be intersting to see which tribe will use it best.
 
@Walkingrock take a look at top10 threads on any world forum ... most of those threads are nonsense , no accuracy at all and much less details/stats are used ... just a bunch of people posting a map and throwing their apinians about top tribes ...
i'm not saying what we have here is the best there is , and i'm not saying you should appreciated it and take it as it is , but i think those weekly updates can give us a chance to debate about this world tribes/wars ... very few agree with grhin 100% , the rest can share their analysis , use their own metrics/stats if needed , in the end all posts here are just players interpreting stats or only using those they see fit or serve them the most ... i don't believe unbiased/full accurate analytics exist on TW2 forums ...
 

DeletedUser2369

Guest
no one is going to discuss this week's issue ?? i guess grhin scared everyone away :D
i think -D- and WOW didn't just switch positions ... they also switched problems ... looking at the map -D- is the one running out of targets now ... surrounded by NAP/allies with only few areas to grow ... WOW seems to have much more options atm + POT falling apart really helped them ... i think the gap between them will increase unless -D- decided to change their diplomacy with one of the major tribes left ... the real question is can they make the rest of top3-5 work with them as usual ??
few things changed since the last issue ... OTS is old news ... -X- still fighting barbs ... they will fall as soon as they face a half decent tribe ... NOH is doing good ... i think gum have some good players and can do well ... the rest of the top 10 isn't worth talking about imo ...

i do agree that doing obp ranking is useless atm ...
Interesting comments there syphax.
only thing id change is to swap NOH and -X-, -X- is the main tribe that decimated OTS's southeastern cluster, while NOH struggled to make headway untill the update posted monday. I am also seeing alot more barmunching from NOH than -X-. All in all, there isnt much to say between them excpet for their fights against OTS, and based off that metric -X- is doing far better than NOH.
My personal prediction is that when the going gets tough, NOH will go inactive for the most part. Other tribes probably would as well, but i expect NOH to be the one who runs into that situation first.
 

DeletedUser4818

Guest
This is running from Monday to Monday so I just need to add in the fact that OTS have completely gone down in flames after this was posted. 430k to 170k, now the core members seems to be gone or on their way to disappear with the exception of 3 players which have jumped over to -x-. Survival of the fittest I guess, adapt and overcome.
At the rate this is currently going -x- will have surpassed the other two tribes soon enough. I am 100% certain that there are some players out there that have done the math, and I am guessing that most of those players are also located in -x- so if they feel like sharing, it would be appreciated.
The coming week will be interesting with darkness being boxed in and nowhere to go, they also seems to have internal issues with players dropping and many others getting bored by not having any war (I wonder why). NAPs and alliances will have to start drop somewhere soon and it will be interesting to see where it starts to happen.
Gotta say I love this sentence "My personal prediction is that when the going gets tough, NOH will go inactive for the most part." with no backing up whatsoever, I mean have you even faced the NOH members on previous servers. Anyway, I still appreciate the weekly updates and even more the part being highlighted by Syphax, the debate around the server (the updates are just a common ground to start the discussion). So keep it up with the posts, even though it is at best 5 players participating in the debate.
 
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