Rams with/with out other troops

[DeletedUser3401]

Hi
I'm new to the game, and have a question regarding Rams.

If I attack an enemy with, lets just say a lvl 10 wall and some 500 defenders in town.
I'm aware that if my attacking army is large enough I win the Battle, and the Rams will do damage to the Wall.

But what if I:
1) attack only with a medium number of (100?) Rams without any other offense.
Will they make any impact on the wall or will they just get slaugthered?
2) I send a larger number (500?) Rams without any other offense. Will that do damage to the wall, even though I still loose the Battle.
3) I attack with Rams and a little Offense, but loose the Battle. Will the Wall take any damage?

I know the tactic isnt good, but I just wanted to know if its at all possible to damage a wall with only Rams

Thanks

 

[DeletedUser2193]

I'll answer in a different order that would explain this better imo.

Yes you damage the wall even if you lose the fight completely

3) From my experience there is a magical formula (that I don't now) that calculates effectiveness of rams. This will be completely mathematically wrong but for explaining purposes its something like this:

Damage to the wall = Number of rams * (your army strength/(defence strength* X))
X being some other factor or constant that I'm not 100% sure of.
note that the (your army strength/(defence strength* X)) value is capped at 1.

Generally rams fight at some ratio off/def

1) Rams have offense power of 2 so 100 rams make it to 200 off power. Assuming there are 100 spearmen as defence in the village (equals 2500 def pow). so the ratio 200 v 2500 is really low and the rams do a terrible job. so like the damage to the wall is like ~10 hitpoints (and this is without applying the X factor)

2) Sending 500 rams result in 1000 off power. Fighting the same 100 spearmen that would still be a low ratio. ~ 0.4 so that would be like 200 HP * X factor.

Rams don't need troops with them but they do need the offence power to increase the ratio of their effectiveness.
+ walls have some default Def power on their own (lvl 20 wall =1420) that's why attacking even empty village with just a wall kills your troops.
+ if the fight is won surviving rams attack 2nd time.

Be aware this is just from experience and my assumptions and the factor X is not just a number but some formula that is not linear.

 

[DeletedUser3401]

Ok thanks for the very nice explanation.
What it tells me is that I cannot expect to get any damage to a Wall when there also are Defensive troops in the town, without sending at least some Offensive troops with the Attack.
But I should be able to do some Wall damage, if there are no other defense in town
Is that correct understood?

 

[DeletedUser2193]

What it tells me is that I cannot expect to get any damage to a Wall when there also are Defensive troops in the town, without sending at least some Offensive troops with the Attack.

I wouldn't say you wont do ANY damage but depending on the amount it would be minimal, yes generally sending rams alone will get them slaughtered even with very few defending units.
You can send 4000 rams vs 20 lvl wall + 100 spearmen. Im sure that would get the wall down but you would lose a lot of rams. Or you could just send 200-300 rams with 50 Light Cavalry and just do more damage and lose less rams + a lot less build time and resources.

But I should be able to do some Wall damage, if there are no other defense in town

As I said.. lvl 20 wall has 1420 (+100% wall bonus) def power what would roughly be like there was 100(?) spearmen defending. (lower levels have lower numbers ofc.)
Even sending like 10-20 axemen with your rams can make HUGE difference while attacking empty villages.

 

[DeletedUser2185]

You will want to send a good sized army with your rams; because rams alone will do very little damage as they have very low attack power.

 

[Citrus]

There are a few mistakes in the theories suggested in this thread. First off, rams belong to archer category, thus spears defend against them with 10 defense power.
If 4000 rams are sent alone against lvl 20 wall + 100 spearmen, with equal modifiers (attacker 100%, defender 200% because of the wall), the attacker would lose exactly 177 rams if the wall bonus came down to 0. However, since the rams come without any escort and I haven't tested it, I can't say for sure if the wall bonus would come all the way down even with that many rams, while the nominal quantity needed (with sufficient escort) is 710 rams.

 

[DeletedUser2635]

rams belong to archer category

Are you sure about that?

 

[DeletedUser2193]

I kind of tried but failed to keep the explanation simple I didn't want to mix in the different fight groups that would just be even more confusing.

rams belong to archer category,

Are you sure about that?

Was quite sure they were considered inf too. I wonder if provision percentage go towards archers too.

 

[DeletedUser2635]

Nice, how did you get those reports?

 

[Citrus]

Are you sure about that?

I don't write on a forum about things that I'm not sure of. If I would, I would also say that it's a guess or an opinion, or something that I can't be sure of.

Was quite sure they were considered inf too. I wonder if provision percentage go towards archers too.

Thank you for that, your test already shows something. You would get even more accurate results if you would set up an equal defense value for each attacking type.

For example if you'd assume rams are archers:
1a) 50 rams vs. 5 archers
1b) 50 rams vs. 30 spears

If you'd assume rams are infantry:
1a) 50 rams vs. 6 swords
1b) 50 rams vs. 33 archers

If you'd assume rams are cavalry:
1a) 50 rams vs. 8 spears
1b) 50 rams vs. 12 archers

 

[Citrus]

By the way, for your further tests;

More logical ones (but tested as well):
Spears = infantry
Swords = infantry
Heavy cavalry = cavalry
Berserker = infantry

Testing needed (I have tested):
Catapult = archer
Trebuchet = archer
Paladin = cavalry

 

[DeletedUser2754]

If they are archers why the hell do they put the numbers in the general/infantry in the wiki, that doesn't make sense. But according to the reports you've shown they really go in the archers group...

 

[DeletedUser2754]

I wrote this to Kei but I believe there are more users interested in this info so I'm quoting what I wrote to him here too.

All this talk made me go back to my old battle engine incomplete spreadsheet.

You saw, as I saw that other guy showing rams attacking in the archer group, right?

Ok so I was checking this report:
offense modifier 104%
2000 lc + 1400 ma + 340 ram + 700 zerks
-982 lc - 518 ma - 167 rams - 120 zerks

defense modifier 100%
2642 sp + 1318 ar + 1282 hc
all killed

The village had a wall 7 but it went down to 0 even before the battle started, so wall bonus = 0. On this conditions I get accurate results with my spreadsheet.

And what happens here is that the rams fight with the cavalry. I get 100% accurate result in my spreadsheet if I place the rams with the cavalry, which is the largest group in provisions.

I'm gonna check more reports but my guess would be that rams fighr with the largest provision group.