Village Specialization > Rigid Nukes

[DeletedUser3129]

I read about this somewhere here, but I can't find it now.

So, several point heads I like to ask. ( and yes I am new to the game )

1. IS there any good in mixing Axes with MA and LC coz I've seen a lot of player condemn this mix.
2. Is there also any good in maxing out your village pop to create one single nuke like 20k. Axe or smthng.
3. Is LC and MA a good nuke? Say, 2k LC 2k MA. Or smthing
4. Building a Berz-only Nuke, is it also good? I found that they are the most "offensive" troops one can use
I wonder how do they do if they're used as one nuke not as additional units for a nuke.
5. Making 1k Rams with Axes, any good?
6. I could use suggestions on a REALLY EFFECTIVE Nuke build, I dont care if takes ages to build
I just need to know what are the nukes that really worked for players not the kind of nukes that I found
in TW Wiki, they kinda sucked.

 

[DeletedUser2635]

1. IS there any good in mixing Axes with MA and LC coz I've seen a lot of player condemn this mix.

I personally don't prefer it but 90% of the nukes look like 4K axes 1K+ LC 1K+ MA 250+ Rams (where I wrote "+" it can be a bit more or a bit less).

2. Is there also any good in maxing out your village pop to create one single nuke like 20k. Axe or smthng.

Yes this is the most basic rule, the bigger the nuke the better it is - no matter of which units it's comprised as long as they are offensive units.

3. Is LC and MA a good nuke? Say, 2k LC 2k MA. Or smthing

Depends who you're attacking, but yes, it usually is a good nuke, 250 rams can be added as well.

4. Building a Berz-only Nuke, is it also good? I found that they are the most "offensive" troops one can use

It is a good nuke to have, but very optional nuke to use [only effective against ca. 45K Provision or bigger stacks].

5. Making 1k Rams with Axes, any good?

Yes only against stacks.

Most effective nukes are single unit nukes (with rams or without), as they get most bonus from Paladin Weapon.

In any other case a balanced nuke is the best one, something in the lines of 4k axes 2k lc 1k ma 250 rams 300 Berserkers.

 

[DeletedUser2754]

I'm gonna answer the same way kei did just to add one more opinion, you'll then have to make up yours
1. I see no point in building axes. I have 600 villages and not one axe in them. They are lousy at farming. Whatever they can do, zerks do at least as better. They have a 45 strength per provision used. zerks have 50. And if they hit a stack they double that value. Also when you build zerks you are using another building to build troops, so if you get a mix of troops between cavalry, mounted archers and zerks, your nukes are not only stronger, they are also faster to build.
Now there is a downside for zerks, their price. They are very very expensive. So you should have as many as you can have without stopping your queue production in the barracks. For a player that doesn't farm, go with 0 and up to about 800 for a player that farms a lot. That's my advice.

2. Don't make mixed villages. A village is either offensive or defensive and reserve as much provisions as you can for troops. There is no point in going beyond level 25 for HQ, level 1 for HallOfOrders, and personally because I barely use the market, I wouldn't go beyond the level 10, I personally use 7. But this last one really depends on the way you play. Personally I think I loose less time to send the troops in a farm run to get the resources than to actually sending them through the market. For you to understand the difference between maxing those 3 buildings or leaving them at the level I use is almost 1.5k worth provisions that you are not using for troops.

3. LC/MA is a good and fast to build nuke. It's also versatile, because besides strong is also fast on the ground. But as Kei said, you should always have rams in your nukes. When you feel speed outweighs the strength in your choice to attack an enemy, just leave them home and send the cavalry alone.

4. As Kei said such a nuke is very useful to hit stacks. The main problem with a full zerk nuke is getting the resources to build them. If you take 2 months to build a full zerk nuke, you can build 5 normal nukes in that time, so you better just send 5 nukes against the stack than build a full zerk nuke. In my case it's not the cost of the zerks by itself but the fact that they are poor at farming, so you can't farm the resources to build them in a proper time. It also depends on your villages and if you have the patience to use the market to send enough iron for it. My markets are normally at level 7 so you can be sure I won't do that. What I try to do is build it in stages I build a MA/zerk nuke first, I use the MA to farm the resources and I can have it built in a short period of time, then I kill part of the MA and keep building zerks in its place until you have a full zerk nuke. But all this is a beautiful plan but I always end up using the nuke before doing the second part, lol
Although I've seen other players saying otherwise, I actually think the zerk nuke doesn't need rams. the value of the zerk nuke is to launch at stacks. And stacks always have too many trebs. I only have rams in them, because sometimes I launch them at normal targets but here you don't actually need them for their main purpose.
But keep this in mind, if you combine the bountiful harvest on this villages, you can add up 400ZERKS to those nukes, now add also the grandmaster when sending the attack to it. On my case that would mean 3200+400zerks+10% strength. Now send that as the first nuke against a stack, which means the zerks will be fighting at double strength, that is a powerful nuke. That's the same as launching a nuke of 52.8k axes. That is power and that can make some damage...

5. Axes or any other unit. It's a wall-breaker for villages that have some trebs in them. I don't use them but I can see the use for them.

6. What you need to know is the strength per provision of each unit and the time it takes to build. And the time they take to build is important. If you take twice as much time to build, that means you could have sent 2 nukes to the enemy when you are just sending 1 even if more powerful.
strength per provision:
AXE - 45; LC - 32.5; MA - 30; ZERK - 50 (100 against stacks)
strength per recruit time
AXE - 18; LC - 21.7; MA - 20; ZERK - 15 (30 against stacks) but take into consideration that the zerks are built on a different building.
resource per strengh
AXE - 1.300w+0.667c+0.889i; LC - 0.962w+0.769c+1.923i; MA - 1.667w+1.333c+0.667i; ZERK - 4.000w+4.000c+8.000i

By the numbers you see up here you can infer that LC is probably the best unit overall. It also farms pretty well. But if you hit a spear stack you are doomed, so take this numbers and try to build a balanced nuke with them. MA are great against spears. ZERKS are powerful but they take a lot of resources. I can tell you the numbers I personally use, 2000LC+1400MA+700ZERKS+354RAMS (takes 11 days and a half to build with the 20% tribe skill or 14 and a half without it), but keep in mind that I have a very high demand on iron with that nuke not just because of the zerks but also the LC, I'm ok with that just because I'm very active and I farm a lot. On coop accounts that are dumped on me and where I don't farm I go with 2800LC+1600MA+354RAMS and no zerks. I know many players make MA/ZERK nukes because MA is high on wood while ZERKS are high on iron and they balance each other out... You have now to take all this info and adapt to your own play style now.

You can use the following spreadsheet to help you with your decisions. It's a spreadsheet I made in LibreOffice (I'm not sure how it works in excel or others) and you can test your village build with your troop build. It should also give you the provisions you are wasting everywhere and how much time it takes to build each troop build. If you put the farm level at 31, it will function as the bountiful harvest on a village with a level 30 farm.
http://sabercathost.com/Uad/TW2-VILSETUP_V0.04.ods
Feel free to use it edit, copy or whatever, I really don't care what you do with it. If you have any problem using it, let me know, I will try to help...

 

[DeletedUser2193]

Stop making posts that I want to make before I manage to post them now i have to delete half of what I wrote

First of all. for an example sending 1000 LC will do more damage than sending 100 LC 10 times. That's why people max out provisions and build distinguished offense and defense villages. (Offensive troops worth ~20'000 provisions is commonly called a nuke)

Its not possible to tell if this kind of nuke is universally better/effective than something else because it depends on the defending unit types.
In my opinion here are generally three types of efficiency

• Raw offense strength effectiveness. berzerkers > axes > LC > MA. offense strength per provision
• Build cost (resource) effectiveness. berzerkers need lots of iron MA need wood/ clay etc.
• Build time effectiveness. LC> MA> Axes /// berzerkers (notice the almost opposite order of the strength point)

Your choice is mixing these up and picking the right combination at the right moment and right targets.

Now about your questions
1) People do that to balance cost and build time. Its fairly quick to build and uses both wood and iron so you don't have to bother with transferring resources from village to village or farming and covers most common def unit types.
2) I think I answered previously.
3) There are no "bad" nukes as long as you fill the 20k provisions and don't attack something specific that counters the units. (for example attacking with pure MA nuke to a village that has equal provisions of archers (archers counter MA)). its good overall explained at first point
4) Its the "strongest" nuke but if you attack a village that doesn't activate the berzerker bonus (activates if the def has 2x provisions than your nuke) you might as well send in axes that would be built faster and would cost less resources.
5) first of all. in all previous nukes I assumed you use ~300 rams since attacking village that has a wall without rams is a sin (ofc there are exceptions to that). Ram count should be determined by the amount of def in the village. Simply the more def the more rams should be in a nuke. Good tactic is sending ram heavy nukes first and then you can hit the target with ramless ones but that goes more for late game when you need multiple nukes to clear a village.
6) There is no right answer. Axes wold be strong per provision but takes long to build and lacks speed if you need it. but as Hibakusha said LC seems to be one of the best choices, but its countered by spearmen that are a common and cheap defense unit. And you just keep building zerks in the HoO queue to finish the nuke faster. That usually ends up with you having mixed nuke. You can probably tailor the nukes better for specific targets but when you have a lot of villages time spent doing that is simply not worth it.

 

[Citrus]

Just one comment; if you're attacking wall level 16 or below (which is quite common especially early game), you'll be ok with 250-300 rams. Against higher wall levels you'll be ok with that quantity only if your objective is to bring the wall down completely. The defender will have some wall bonus. Bring at least 710 rams against wall level 20, or 800+ to make up for possible bad luck/morale to negate all of the wall bonus (this applies to battles that are won by the attacker).

 

[DeletedUser2635]

Now there is a downside for zerks, their price.

I personally don't recruit axes once past the early game and sometimes not at all, but mid game I would rather spend the resources on coins (especially because zerks take all the iron and if you want to recruit some LC as well you basically can never mint any coins in that village).

I wouldn't go beyond the level 10, I personally use 7.

I think this is too risky especially when you need a market to send resources to a new village to build a Church, and Market up to lvl 15 doesn't take a lot of Provisions anyway (at least not to make any difference when it comes to nuke size). I personally go with at least lvl 15.

I actually think the zerk nuke doesn't need rams.

I support this.

that means you could have sent 2 nukes to the enemy

This is kinda arguable because past a point you will have full nukes sitting at home doing nothing anyway.

 

[DeletedUser2635]

Bring at least 710 rams against wall level 20, or 800+ to make up for possible bad luck/morale to negate all of the wall bonus (this applies to battles that are won by the attacker).

That's not practical at all tho.


Just to add one more thing:

Bad nukes: nukes that attack at 50% Faith

Everything else is good as long as you use offensive units.

 

[DeletedUser2754]

I personally don't recruit axes once past the early game and sometimes not at all, but mid game I would rather spend the resources on coins (especially because zerks take all the iron and if you want to recruit some LC as well you basically can never mint any coins in that village).

This conflicts with your last point of this post. Reality is what happens is that either because your nukes return intact or you are waiting for the op to take place, you end up having the nukes fully built on long periods of time. And it happens quite frequently to have the stash full of iron because it's the least used on coins when starting to rebuild the nuke. And I end up gifting more to the tribe for skills of the other resources to balance this out. But I understand your point and agree with it to a certain degree.
Also keep in mind that the way the battle engine is built, zerks always die less than the other units proportionally. I think they fight last but I still haven't figured out how that part works, but this happens, so when rebuilding you might not need as much iron as you would normally think.

I think this is too risky especially when you need a market to send resources to a new village to build a Church, and Market up to lvl 15 doesn't take a lot of Provisions anyway (at least not to make any difference when it comes to nuke size). I personally go with at least lvl 15.

I cat down the markets as I capture new villages but this is a slow process and most players always have high markets. So I always have villages with high markets to cover this, and because they are my latest captures, they are very likely to be in the frontline... So I end up not having a problem there. And on the rare case this could happen I have to send the level 7 market is enough, I just have to send from more villages.

This is kinda arguable because past a point you will have full nukes sitting at home doing nothing anyway.

True but you will always want to be prepared for the worst case scenario... An op went wrong you lost a big chunk of your nukes, you will want a fast deployment. On a normal basis, you are correct. Anyway, the idea was more to give info so that Oceans can think what best fits for his/her case.

 

[DeletedUser2193]

I actually think the zerk nuke doesn't need rams

I support this.

I would argue about that. Of course if the stack has lot of trebs then yeah no use.
Lets say if i have available 10 nukes that I'm throwing at a huge stack 2 of them wall busters and 2 full zerker nukes and rest are just mix... I wonder if it would be better. Sending wall busters first and hoping they would bring the wall down couple of levels each and then hitting with zerkers or hitting with zerkers first and then bunker busters or adding some rams to the zerkers and send them first.
Honestly i have very little experience with full zerk nukes as i never build them. id rather have disposable nuke than one that waits for the right opportunity as i don't want to just waste it and it just sits there for a month.

 

[DeletedUser2754]

As a principle and without knowing the defense composition, just knowing it's a stack I would go with zerks first then wall busters then normal nukes. Reason is to kill part of the trebs before for the wall busters for them to make the most damage... But I wouldn't be surprised if it worked best the other way around. This would also make sure the zerks fight at double strength. But that decision depends a lot on the amount of trebs in the stack. The fewer the trebs, the more likelly I would put the wall busters ahead that's for sure.

 

[DeletedUser2635]

This conflicts with your last point of this post.

Yes I know I was trying not to involve my personal preferences too much, as my style of playing is quite unorthodox and might not be suitable for most people.

you end up having the nukes fully built on long periods of time.

Which basically means that at some point the build time of the nukes is basically irrelevant, wouldn't you say?

I just have to send from more villages

I can understand your point of view, but do you think it is worth the effort long term?

True but you will always want to be prepared for the worst case scenario

This is also true and it answers my question above, to some degree that is - it basically means that you can build fast nukes on the front lines while building whatever you want in safe areas.

 

[DeletedUser2754]

1. I prefer to give a bit of how I do it, expecting the players not to follow it but to do the necessary adjustments to the way they play.
2. It's never irrelevant, but I would say it's not crucial.
3. I didn't get your question. Are you asking if it is worthy to cat down the market or if it is worthy to send from many villages. Regarding the action of catting down the market I would say that from market at level 25 to level 7 it's about 800 worth provisions. Because the devs can't place a simple demolish function in the rally point the action to level it down is stupid, as you know you have to attack yourself. So I would say it would be worthy for sure if the devs implemented that feature. As things are and for most players I would say it's not worthy, for me and because I like to have my villages built in a certain way, I prefer to do it... But I take no rush in the process. I have villages taken months ago still to be cat down... Regarding sending resources from many villages, that barelly happens, I remember doing that once. You can quickly get the resources for a church in the inventory, i never use that quick enough. And for a quick deployment of nobles, once you build 100LC and with the Master of Loot you can have the queue of nobles always full. I always prefer farming to the market...

 

[DeletedUser2635]

cat down the market

This was what I was asking about, thanks for the answer.

 

[DeletedUser3129]

Okay, Well I'd say I am surprised a lot has taken interest in my questions I thank you all.
If anyone is ever aware of one of the games of Innogames as well, Grepolis. I started there.
Played for 4 years and I switched to Tribal Wars. So, basically same do's and don'ts just
a different way of have's and have not.

Thanks for putting it into science for me, and thanks for sharing your perspectives.
Yes Im dying for a demolish option for TW2. Im starting to look like a point-whore whenever
I noble internals with 11233 points or something.

Thanks, guys, really had a nice read about this. This is what I've been looking for, a player's perspective
towards the game, that way I could learn quickly and grow a pair. My questions have been answered.

Now a follow-up.
What's the best way to defeat an HC Stack? I did once before but I had to lose 8 nukes before I clear.
Best way to beat Arch/Spear stacks also.
Forgot to ask them.

It also strikes me as I am an attacker, the offset of which the TW War mechanics gives to the defenders
and attackers. For instance, as a stack grows the less and less it can be an easy clear, to almost unclearable.
And def units (archers/spears) are much faster than some off units (save the horses ofcourse)
And basing from experience, its actually A LOT easier to defend rather to attack lol.
It's also A LOT easier to snipe noble trains. The offset between defenders and attackers are big,
on my point of view. Im very much open to learn a lot more since Im kinda hook to the game
considering I've invested a lot of my time here lately, including sleeps.

What I think the most important resource you could use for TW is time.
Just as any other games InnoGames makes.
Please, do enlighten me more. I am eager to learn.
Don't ask me to go to TW Wiki been there, it sucked.

 

[Citrus]

From unit stats;
- best units against HC are the LC (berserkers against a big stack)
- best units against a spear/archer stack are the berserkers (+axemen)

 

[DeletedUser2635]

And basing from experience, its actually A LOT easier to defend rather to attack lol.

I wouldn't say it is easy to defend, especially early game.

It's also A LOT easier to snipe noble trains.

Depends who the attacker is, but I see where this is coming from.

 

[DeletedUser1594]

There are different phases of the game, which will cause you to use different builds. Early on in the game players don't have trebs, and wall levels may not be maxed, so while rams are important, higher numbers are not needed. As you progress and have more and more villages, horse nukes become the norm as they are the fastest build and help with farming. As you progress to the late game where you have hundreds of offensive villages, I think where players need to get creative and start to take notes. Obviously against larger stacks, zerk nukes are optimal, as well as large number ram nukes to get above the treb count. Knowing your enemy you need to know what kind of defense they typically employ. A lot of players are anti-axe, which is understandable through the mid game, but late game they have a great deal of effectiveness. While I do agree zerks are superior with the bonus, without it they are only slighly stronger than axes per provision, but the resource disparity is so so much worse than axes.
To put into perspective: 12 axe(12 provisions) vs 2hc (12 provisions) against 3LC(12 provisions) vs 2HC(12 provisions),
axe - 12 x 45 = 540
hc - 2 x 200 = 400

lc - 3 x 130 = 390
hc - 2 x 160 = 320

What you will notice with most players defense is, they usually go spear/archer/hc, completely neglecting the sword. Now I am not suggesting that you build purely axe nukes as the time it takes is too long, but when you have several hundred offensive villages trying different builds is definitely something worth doing.

 

[DeletedUser1323]

Actually the balance nuke is not really valid when sending nobles. Remember that nobles stack with the infantry. If you have more provisions tied up in LC/MA/Rams in that nuke and put the pally with it. The pally will stack with the greatest provision unit and then leave the rest of the nuke vulnerable. This nuke will also attack in 4 rounds at 25% of the total for the entire nuke. The best noble nukes by percent kill are axe/zerk with the pally, no rams. there are 5 standard nukes that all players must have in some form 1)axe/zerk/ram 2)LC/MA 3)LC only 4)MA only 5) a mixed diversion nukes. (basically throw aways that allow the superior nukes to be more effective)

 

[DeletedUser2754]

Actually the balance nuke is not really valid when sending nobles. Remember that nobles stack with the infantry. If you have more provisions tied up in LC/MA/Rams in that nuke and put the pally with it. The pally will stack with the greatest provision unit and then leave the rest of the nuke vulnerable. This nuke will also attack in 4 rounds at 25% of the total for the entire nuke. The best noble nukes by percent kill are axe/zerk with the pally, no rams. there are 5 standard nukes that all players must have in some form 1)axe/zerk/ram 2)LC/MA 3)LC only 4)MA only 5) a mixed diversion nukes. (basically throw aways that allow the superior nukes to be more effective)

This information is incorrect. It's a false myth created by the TW2 wiki or an explanation tutorial. That might be true for the fight power of the pally itself (although that is irrelevant in a big attack) but the weapon he carries always takes effect whatever the composition of the nuke. It has been tested and confirmed and there are threads about this in this forum. I send the noble with some LC and the pally carrying the vasco's scepter all the time and the weapon always takes effect.
The only point of having dedicated nukes is for you to spy the enemy and find a one unit stack. That is so rare and when you actually find it your dedicated nuke is so far away and you have so many close by nukes that I don't find that very useful. Besides if the defense is that unbalanced you can just send the units of the type you want to send leaving the rest home and the job still gets done.
I see the point on a nice balanced nuke, some occasional zerk nukes and a wall buster. I personally don't use the last one, but I can see the point in it.

 

[DeletedUser1323]

This information is incorrect. It's a false myth created by the TW2 wiki or an explanation tutorial. That might be true for the fight power of the pally itself (although that is irrelevant in a big attack) but the weapon he carries always takes effect whatever the composition of the nuke. It has been tested and confirmed and there are threads about this in this forum. I send the noble with some LC and the pally carrying the vasco's scepter all the time and the weapon always takes effect.
The only point of having dedicated nukes is for you to spy the enemy and find a one unit stack. That is so rare and when you actually find it your dedicated nuke is so far away and you have so many close by nukes that I don't find that very useful. Besides if the defense is that unbalanced you can just send the units of the type you want to send leaving the rest home and the job still gets done.
I see the point on a nice balanced nuke, some occasional zerk nukes and a wall buster. I personally don't use the last one, but I can see the point in it.

I do not know what you are smoking but you are wrong. I never stated weapon. You read only what you wanted to read. This is totally backed up by numerous reports that it is still based on provisions and the round based combat system. Now (when) if Inno will actually release all of the calculations then this will be a mute point and there will be one single nuke style. I have done a lot of coding with the actual game engine so I know what it is doing. You may not agree with it but to make it a personal attack by stating it is incorrect when Inno themselves are the ones that RELEASED this information then you may want to reassess what you post.