Defensive Builds

Syzygy05

Guest
What kind of builds are you considering using in TW2, considering the stats have been changed from TW1.
 

Kusco

Guest
There is a standard 1:1:1 ratio, that typically still holds true as being the strongest all around defense. You add all the numbers together and divide by the number of civilians it takes, and you get a pretty number. 1 Spear, 1 Sword, 1 Archer = 90, 80, and 100, defenses for 3 civilians.

Compare that to a Heavy Calv, which in tw2 is very good? HC unit, 200, 160, 180 defenses. 6 Civilians. Holy shat. Great stuff.

For the sake of our comparisons, I will be looking at the total Civilians, usually in multiples of 6, to help determine numbers (6 civs per HC, 2sp, 2sw, 2ar per infantry)
I will not take account for Halls of Order price reductions.

Infantry squad Defense 180, 160, 200. Heavy Calv unit Defense 200, 160, 180. Yes, their total defenses are equal, just in different locations.

Build times: Infantry Squad, Level 25 Barracks; 19:06. HC unit 8:38. HC really wins the day on speed of build times. Less than half!
Cost: Infantry costs are 700 resources spread evenly across, 320 Lumber, 180 Clay, 300 Iron.
HC costs are lopsided and are 950 total across, 200 Lumber, 150 clay, 600 Iron.

Building ONLY HC can be very difficult to do. That much iron really hits you right in the manhood, should you be a man. In a perfect world you could make it happen, but realistically you are unlikely to be able to feed a defensive village THAT much iron.

So, this is what I'm testing. HC and Spears, just like TW1. Spears help fill the gap against LC. I'm going with a 4:1 ratio, 4 spears, 1 HC. The numbers are builds have been good. While I build a stack of spears I stack up iron for a HC stack. I'll feed some iron to the village should I have it lying around.

Long term? Still debating on the whole iron issue. I would love to use full HC. The support speeds, build speed, lack of defense holes, really do make it the elite defense unit. But realistically you'll be waiting for iron.
 

Syzygy05

Guest
I was thinking the same thing, but also a few 4085 spears + 4085 archers + 2k HC defense thrown in.
 

skipperlipicus

Guest
I understand the need for defensive troops, but I can't believe the amount of players who only build defense. It's got to be so boring just waiting to get attacked. The funny thing is that a good offensive player can completely eclipse them in growth... So many people are just outright bad at this game.
 

Syzygy05

Guest
Normally that would be the case except defense has a slight advantage over offense in this game, not that I am condoning a strictly defensive build for all of your villages. You're right though, it's not fun playing that way.
 

daman12457

Guest
Syzygy05;n12506 said:
Normally that would be the case except defense has a HUGE advantage over offense in this game.

Fixed your post
 

skipperlipicus

Guest
Have fun capturing those barbarian villages and losing them as farms and having to build them up to be of any use... meanwhile those with offensive armies can actually take over fully built cities, and enjoy the satisfaction of playing against another person as opposed to some empty village that doesn't fight back.
 

Kusco

Guest
There's nothing more annoying than finding out another one of your farms was nobled. That's how I make most of my enemies. Oh look, he took a barb. NOOB inc.
 

Syzygy05

Guest
Play one side too heavily and you'll be sure to tip over, but no I don't play strictly defensive. I was just asking for the few def villas I do have.
 

ScienceReligion

Guest
skipperlipicus;n12455 said:
I understand the need for defensive troops, but I can't believe the amount of players who only build defense. It's got to be so boring just waiting to get attacked. The funny thing is that a good offensive player can completely eclipse them in growth... So many people are just outright bad at this game.


70% defense villages here atm ... I'm fairly certain what you meant was start offensively and slowly transition into more defense.
If you keep going offensive heavy for a long period of time and after having 20 ish villages you end up being way to easy of a target for large players and you would never be able to support friendlies without taking huge risks.
 

daman12457

Guest
ScienceReligion;n13137 said:
70% defense villages here atm ... I'm fairly certain what you meant was start offensively and slowly transition into more defense.
If you keep going offensive heavy for a long period of time and after having 20 ish villages you end up being way to easy of a target for large players and you would never be able to support friendlies without taking huge risks.

So what you are saying is this game is boring as fuck, build times for troops and the whole idea of the church make this game drag out, and all in all it's pretty much midieval simcity turtle time.
 

thedrummingfish

Guest
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ScienceReligion

Guest
daman12457;n13238 said:
So what you are saying is this game is boring as ****, build times for troops and the whole idea of the church make this game drag out, and all in all it's pretty much midieval simcity turtle time.


What I'm saying without delving to much in my strats for this world is you start off very offensively for me that was first 6 villages 4 offense 2 defense (church) and transition into more defense in time. I tried to explain why you put more defense villages in time and that has nothing to do with "simcity" more to do with the most efficient way to sustain your growth really...

Growth can go both ways: negative (losing villages) and positive (taking villages) growth
At some point you meet players on the map that can take villages from you and if you are way to high on offense it's a joke for players with even a small amount of offense to take your villages off of you. Causing negative growth ... Building more defense then offense just is the best route for growing optimally after reaching a certain size.

You can go a simcity type play style like almost all the turtles everyone in the forums hate but it's not viable in the long run just keeps you alive for a bit longer.
 

daman12457

Guest
ScienceReligion;n13273 said:
What I'm saying without delving to much in my strats for this world is you start off very offensively for me that was first 6 villages 4 offense 2 defense (church) and transition into more defense in time. I tried to explain why you put more defense villages in time and that has nothing to do with "simcity" more to do with the most efficient way to sustain your growth really...

Growth can go both ways: negative (losing villages) and positive (taking villages) growth
At some point you meet players on the map that can take villages from you and if you are way to high on offense it's a joke for players with even a small amount of offense to take your villages off of you. Causing negative growth ... Building more defense then offense just is the best route for growing optimally after reaching a certain size.

You can go a simcity type play style like almost all the turtles everyone in the forums hate but it's not viable in the long run just keeps you alive for a bit longer.

I wasn't calling you out or anything, I was pretty much saying the same thing you were. Defense is unbelievably overpowered in this game, and there is no reason what so ever to not focus on it.
 

ScienceReligion

Guest
You're very correct in your statement that defense is on the strong side maybe even overpowered although I believe that the tribes that produce the first few kings will have much less trouble with that considering the permanent faith a king can provide. (explained in wiki)
 

DeletedUser694

Guest
I have noticed that it takes a huge amount of troops to take out a full defensive village, i think the bias has gone to much to the Turtles in this game and it needs balancing out.
 

daman12457

Guest
Mike62, have you noticed that by what your other tribemates have done? Because with 30,000 total bash points, I can't imagine you've done much yourself.
 

DeletedUser694

Guest
I wasn't going to justify the remark above but it seems you have paid little attention to the area i am in , before criticising anyone ask there tribemates what they are like and you will find that a large amount of my defensive troops are in frontline villages which are a large distance away from my core villages. So please continue to go on because the people who know me and tribe mates i am helping know what i am doing for the benefit of my tribe.
 
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