Cheating is the Only Reasonable Way to Play

I’ve been playing Tribals Wars off and on since TW1, but I think I’m done now. I’m done because I finally realized that I’m playing a game that can’t be won.

Don’t get me wrong, I don’t mean that there won’t be a winning tribe for our world; I mean that Inno has created a situation where you can’t actually play competitively without dedicating the majority of your day to this game. Or cheating.

I got myself to around rank 50 in our world without any scripts or cheating (as I've been able to do regularly across the years). I did it all manually, on my own, no co-op. But I’m spending almost an hour every morning, just cycling through my cities constructing buildings, sending farming runs, minting coins and queuing troops. I’m literally not even “playing” the game anymore, I’m just doing maintenance. Anything that requires an hour of maintenance every day is a job, not a game.

Alternatively, I could do what almost every other top player does: cheat. And by “cheat” I mean use scripts to automate some of the tasks in-game. With dozens of villages, hundreds of attack and support commands across the front lines, it’s the only reasonable way to play this game.

But if you do that, Inno can ban you. Maybe for 3 days. Maybe a week. Maybe forever. You never know. And as a result of constant scripting and banning, we’re not really playing a game of talented, dedicated teams fighting each other to see who’s best. Nope, we’re playing a game of “who can get away with what?” And if you get caught, your team will be set back and your opponents will win. Not because of any talent or skill, but because Inno interfered and changed the dynamics in the middle of the game. And if that’s happened to you or your team – there’s nothing you can do. Unless of course you continue to cheat by using alt accounts, co-ops, etc.

To play at a competitive level, in a world with tens of thousands of villages (of which you have to capture a majority), is simply not possible to do without some scripts or assistance.

Let’s face it, accounts need to be covered 24/7. Farming, defense and attacks have to be timed to the nano-second. Extensive calculations have to be done out of game just to coordinate effectively in-game. How ridiculous is it that the two most important tools to TW2 are the battle calculator and the distance tracker…and neither of them can be found in-game?!

The fact is, Inno has created a game that can’t be won through skill, dedication or teamwork – unless you have nothing else to do with your life.

In TW1, premium payments gave you access to a massive suite of in-game tools that allowed you to manage your villages and play the game at a macro level. My friend and I paid that readily every month so that we could effectively challenge the top players in the world. (We placed top 20 and top 5 respectively).

But with none of that functionality in TW2, there is no way to effectively manage more than a couple of dozen villages. No wonder people turn to automated scripts to be able to compete. How else can it be done???

Inno – the fact that so many people use scripts, and cheat in some way should be sending you a message that something is wrong with your design. Rather than ban these people, and try to squash scripts, why not find the most popular ones, build some in-game tools around them and allow people to play at whatever level they want? I’d love to test my skill against other players on a level playing field. I’d pay for that chance. But that’s not what your game offers and I can’t see myself continuing to waste my time at a “job” simply because you call it a game.
 
this is the main reason i disagree with softbans, and prefer the permanent hard ban.
these stir-ups aren't helpful midgame. not naming specifics to stay in the forum rules, but many of the people who were banned this time, were also banned at the beginning of the world, on all sides and all tribes. if it was a permanent ban, the issue would end, the botters would be out, and we wouldn't have a mess in the middle of the game.

It's turned into a "wait patiently until the next ban wave and eat whoever is taken out" back and forth.
 
I see alot of C tier at best players tbh on this Realm...
Unfortunately when tribes Go Fubar
And a tribe emerges with an advantage
You get alot of C tier players thinking they're the best thing since sliced Bread.

Wanna find out whose actually Good...
See if they don't back out after weeks of bombardment.

Attacking is easy ... Fun..
Defending.
Every day .... and defending coop trains too and sticking around for months

That's an A+ player...

Wait ... A Minute...

I've just described myself :D:D:cool:
 
But the Game comes down to activity....
( SHOULD ) come down to activity.

The rampant illicit play On this Realm from Day 1 is levels I thought I'd never see...

This is the New tribal wars...
My advice to people who wanna enjoy the Game...
Get 150-200 known players...

Make 5 or 6 tribes evenly balanced... all agree no illicit play... Man's word and all that...

Any foreign tribes spawn...
All attack em immediately b4 they Grow
Especially ones with very dubious reputations...

Might be classed an monopolising
But it's my best suggestion as this game goes further into unsalvageable territory
 
Haha the good ol’send 300 fakes and they quit


Seen hundreds probably come and go
Couldn't stand the heat...
Once a coop messaged me constantly one day

' helpppp! I'm under Heavy attack ! Help now'

Checked ... 4 incomings cav speed

( palmed face emoji ) lmaoo
 
I got myself to around rank 50 in our world without any scripts or cheating (as I've been able to do regularly across the years). I did it all manually, on my own, no co-op. But I’m spending almost an hour every morning, just cycling through my cities constructing buildings, sending farming runs, minting coins and queuing troops. I’m literally not even “playing” the game anymore, I’m just doing maintenance. Anything that requires an hour of maintenance every day is a job, not a game.

Alternatively, I could do what almost every other top player does: cheat. And by “cheat” I mean use scripts to automate some of the tasks in-game. With dozens of villages, hundreds of attack and support commands across the front lines, it’s the only reasonable way to play this game.

I will open your eyes! The game has mechanisms to deal with a large number of villages. They're not perfect, but they make it easier to play.
 
OH oh my turn to chime in!

So @Spiritdoctor you can press w to bring up the overview page to mass recruit/build by clicking on diff stuff Images for clarification that can save you some time.But at the end of the day tw2 has descended to who can script and get away with it. and who can multi account and also get away with it. And any supposedly "clean" player is not clean at all.Having played with half of them back in the day their tribes had literal script sections on the discord chats and general and squad chat was full of similar stuff...Sure they might not be doing it now but doesnt mean they haven't
 
Thread locked for cleaning.

I'll re-open once done. Please keep the handbags out of this and address and discuss the central points raised.

Right. Re-opened. Keep it on topic please and I'll keep this open for discussion.
 
Thank you AC for the "cleaning" and thank you Rhaegar2 for the comments. Yes, I experimented with the overviews and "mass" buttons but found them awkward and cumbersome to use. They weren't enough (in my opinion) to make gameplay more enjoyable.
 
Sorry AC.
I was thinking of this in bed last night...
I think the game inno created isn't that bad. On a casual level, I still care about this game, and that's why I get fiesty. I think the issue starts with the introduction of what I'll refer to as SCs (super-competitives). The idea for this game was supposed be a casual one, do some farming, do some attacking, do some defending and nobles some villages back and forth, have a good time and toss around banter. But these SCs showed up I can't exactly say when, they weren't here yet when I started in en23... anyway, they came and they drained the fun out of the GAME. They made it so that in order to have any fun with the people, you would need to spend a good 10 hours of your day in this "casual" game.

As I said previously, the game isn't functioning as intended, or more, the player base isn't functioning as inno intended. (yes that does include me, I'm as toxic as anyone else)
Like Spirit previously said, It's become a chore. I'm not having fun, others aren't having fun, and I'm sure many of the SCs aren't even having fun.
I've stated numerous times in the past "why are you doing this for a prize worth 7 dollars". I don't understand bringing this extreme level of competition into a very niche kind of game. It's not like you'll get twitch streamer famous because you beat some worlds in TW2, I see repeats of the same people in most currently open worlds. there's no new eyes on this game. And there won't be until something is done to mediate what the playerbase has become. There's an in-group in this game now, it's very harrowing for an upcomer to stick around because of what the SCs have turned the game into. In another thread in this very forum we had someone insult that we had new players invited into our premade at the beginning of Quadrangular.

Why wouldn't you want to help new players? Why would you purposely kick down the ability for the game to stay alive? teaching the tactics of the game to new players is fun as hell man, watching them develop and occasionally surpass you.

I think people are forgetting the meaning of this "game" which is a fun escape from reality where you can play pretend warlord.
despite my frustrations in world, I still met some really cool people, as I do in every world I play, I'm sure others feel the same, and then you go and you're like "these guys are cool, we had a good laugh, ok sorry time to stay up for 40 straight hours against better judgment to time some trains"

Why would anyone want to play *that* game?


Anyway, I'm rambling. I guess what I'm saying is this: Because the playerbase isn't functioning as inno intended, and the game isn't functioning as the playerbase intended. I feel that inno will really need to find some way to find a middle ground, else they continue to bleed players. The middle ground that the playerbase is looking for is some kind of toolset or premium for a toolset that will keep the game competitive while keeping it a GAME.

Completely different note, but I feel we shouldn't judge and shame a quitting player who decided to air their grievances. they're done, they're not coming back, they are no longer your enemy, they are an aggrieved person. have some respect for that at least. We're all people.
 
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Sorry AC.

Apology accepted, I know it happens, thank you for understanding :)

That said, this sort of post is exactly the sort of reason I've kept this open, this thread will hopefully allow people to discuss this in a reasonable fashion, and I will pull out some suggestions / constructive criticisms as they develop and forward them to the CM. I can't promise any more than that.
 
I'm trying to knock the rock in my head around a bit to find the exact solution to the problem many players are facing, but can't come up with any one thing, so if I can't, I can't expect that inno can.

Premium tools can be helpful, sure. But not everyone is rich, many players will still be disgruntled at the "pay to win" aspect of it.

A site like the defunct tw2-tools was an absolute game-changer, and I wish there were an official innogames version of it, but that doesn't change anything for the casual player. Not everyone cares what this exact player capped in the last hour, or what that player accumulated in bashpoints from an attack. that's just auxiliary.

An official calculator would also be a very good tool to have, but I'm pretty sure at this point, the current dev team doesn't even know how some of the finer calculations work.

and of course distance calculators. I honestly believe that the game should just tell you the incoming speed. I don't see why it has to be a secret. If I'm getting 300 incomings, throughout several villages, to have to click through each of them, open the attacking village's profile, look at the attack speeds, refer back to how much time has passed and how much time is remaining on my incoming to figure out the distance, and do that 300 times. I'm not saying it's impossible, I've done it numerous times, but holy hell, it's a time sink. with large incomings I generally just look for trains and ignore everything else, 'cause i cba to dedicate so much time. I'm sure there's tools for it already, but there shouldn't be in my opinion, it should just say.

Autofarmers are kind of a tedious subject. some approve, some don't. I personally think farming is a bad mechanic, but what other choices are there? You can't remove farming if you have barbs, and you can't remove barbs if people hope to expand. only expanding by killing other players would make the game progress painfully slowly.

Rebalances? rebalancing loot isn't an easy task, because barbs use the same system as player villages. "if res pits are this level, res output is this or that", reworking resource output would mess with the entire balance of the game. Having only resource pits in a village for output would mean removing resource from barbs, which would kill money makers like boosters, or tribe perks like raiding paths and wagons. You would need to remake the entire game at that point.

I don't know, maybe set up a farmer unit , have choices like farming x province for y amount of hours. Have it to use an amount of provision space while farming. it would add a challenge of balancing your troops to make sure you have enough provision space to farm. This would mean that your actual fighting/defending troops are ready for war. This is a terrible idea but maybe someone here can work off it and come up with something actually viable.

come on guys, let's butt heads.
 
Lol honestly release faster speed worlds like TW1... This would solve some of the headaches people complain about regarding the grind. Less worried about tedious stuff, and more focus on the action part and not such a long world where people get too bored.

The calculator is fine, an official tracker would be great (TW1 had one), but really?... Come on, you really need to also know the incoming speed. Like how much more casual you want a game to be, at some point it sounds like you want to keep playing the game but suggests stuff that sounds like you don't want to play the game and want the game to play itself...
 
Lol honestly release faster speed worlds like TW1... This would solve some of the headaches people complain about regarding the grind. Less worried about tedious stuff, and more focus on the action part and not such a long world where people get too bored.

The calculator is fine, an official tracker would be great (TW1 had one), but really?... Come on, you really need to also know the incoming speed. Like how much more casual you want a game to be, at some point it sounds like you want to keep playing the game but suggests stuff that sounds like you don't want to play the game and want the game to play itself...
"less worried about the tedious stuff, and more focus on the action part" having the incoming speed listed is literally removing tedium. Having farms taken care of is also removing tedium, while still having it be your input that decides the action. you're still building your own troops, you're still balancing your own resources, still balancing troops, you're still plotting your own attacks, you're still plotting your own defenses, you're still working your your tribe on operations. having a form of autofarming isn't even in the same ballpark as the game running itself.
 
"less worried about the tedious stuff, and more focus on the action part" having the incoming speed listed is literally removing tedium. Having farms taken care of is also removing tedium, while still having it be your input that decides the action. you're still building your own troops, you're still balancing your own resources, still balancing troops, you're still plotting your own attacks, you're still plotting your own defenses, you're still working your your tribe on operations. having a form of autofarming isn't even in the same ballpark as the game running itself.
There’s a fine line in playing a game and a game playing itself. Like name me any actual game that does that for you lol. MMO, what you want it to gather stuff for you? Lol incomings are easy enough to tell honestly… if your complaining about 300 incoming and your actually there calculating for each your doing it wrong lol… there’s a thing calls spies. Use them, that 300 becomes 20. The people complaining are the ones who thing they’re good because they have a program that can do it all. Now that’s sad.
 
Just an FYI if y’all want auto farm, auto incoming, auto everything go to TW1 it’s allowed and inno gives it to you lol then you can have have a script war. Sound fun right :D
 
There’s a fine line in playing a game and a game playing itself. Like name me any actual game that does that for you lol. MMO, what you want it to gather stuff for you? Lol incomings are easy enough to tell honestly… if your complaining about 300 incoming and your actually there calculating for each your doing it wrong lol… there’s a thing calls spies. Use them, that 300 becomes 20. The people complaining are the ones who thing they’re good because they have a program that can do it all. Now that’s sad.
Most RTS, which this game is, implement a system of passive income. You set it up and you forget. Do RTS play themselves?

And enough with the snotty elitism, I’m talking in terms of casual play, for the average person who sees the game and wants to try, the way the game was intended to be played before SCs showed up. The types of things that will keep new players playing.

300 incomings is six villages, are you trying to say it’s impossible for six villages to have troops for a real attack?

Come and have judgment free conversation and leave the weiner waving for your generals.
 
Most RTS, which this game is, implement a system of passive income. You set it up and you forget. Do RTS play themselves?

And enough with the snotty elitism, I’m talking in terms of casual play, for the average person who sees the game and wants to try, the way the game was intended to be played before SCs showed up. The types of things that will keep new players playing.

300 incomings is six villages, are you trying to say it’s impossible for six villages to have troops for a real attack?

Come and have judgment free conversation and leave the weiner waving for your generals.
6 village incoming is normal, but depends on multiple scenarios… does it have a church? No then 1 real. Yes, then check for nobles. 6 villa train that’s pretty late stage. If you’ve made it that long then you’ve proven to be able to handle at least half of such incoming.

wanna know why this is idea is dumb and infuriates me… This is the same suggestion made in TW1 to allow this. Guess what? Killed the game, loads of people left. They make TW2 and if that idea was so great how come it never made it? Wonder why? Not sure if you even played that far back lol. That’s why I’m saying if you want to play like that go to TW1. I don’t blame INNO, they needed a way to make money, but guess they’ve figure Gwen is a better option. I’d rather gwen over allowing that stuff back in here.

seriously faster world would solve most of it. It’ll even feel like an RTS due to the speed. 2 weeks barbs are at least 2.5K meaning 3-5 farm run you’re mostly max warehouse. Your pits would probably produce more then you can spend, don’t log into the game for 1-2hrs come back pits alone may max your ware house. Faster building allows you to learn the mechanics.

New player maybe play in a server for x amount of time against non-player, short lived server get them use to the game (but to late now when they rarely get any new player). Better yet, have a better tutorial. In game tutorial is garbage doesn’t teach anything other than barracks build troop. Click this button to send troop. Good job your good to go see ya. Make it a longer tutorial that really deep dives form basic to advance tips. Maybe add in crown for completing each tutorial.
 
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